QUOTE (Ron_Mexico @ Oct 24 2007, 02:44 PM) 
QUOTE (Ron_Mexico @ Oct 22 2007, 08:12 PM)
Still no Kevin Walter in your rankings ?
order has been restored.
Sorry for the delay, Ron. It's been a hectic week on the school and work front.
I had meant to put Walter back in the WR rankings a few weeks ago, but a player or two will slip through the cracks every once in awhile when I'm making mass adjustments. He was definitely a crack-slipper.
Either way, I don't think we're talking about a guy with any more than fleeting dynasty value. Odds are he's going to get remaindered once Andre Johnson returns. He's kind of like a Ron Dayne of WRs in that way....Fill-in starter for a few weeks, then back home on the waiver wire where he belongs.
QUOTE (Keys Myaths @ Oct 18 2007, 03:42 PM)
See, but every report out says that Henry has probably a *maximum* of three weeks left. I'm honestly thinking he has three games left in professional football given the above circumstances (probably will get cut, 30 year old runner out of a job, etc). If I were a Henry dynasty owner, I'd trade him for a TON of the guys you have below him right now, straight up.
According to rotoworld last night:
When and if Travis Henry is suspended, the Denver Post believes Selvin Young and Andre Hall will become running backs 1A and 1B, respectively.
Beat writer Mike Klis in a Q and A compares the situation to 2005, when Mike Anderson rushed for 1,014 yards and Tatum Bell gained 921. Klis also writes that "there is some optimism in Dove Valley" that Henry will get away without being suspended. A decision could be handed down by mid-November.
QUOTE (Fear & Loathing @ Oct 24 2007, 11:53 AM)
QUOTE (Ron_Mexico @ Oct 24 2007, 02:44 PM)
QUOTE (Ron_Mexico @ Oct 22 2007, 08:12 PM)
Still no Kevin Walter in your rankings ?
order has been restored.
Sorry for the delay, Ron. It's been a hectic week on the school and work front.
I had meant to put Walter back in the WR rankings a few weeks ago, but a player or two will slip through the cracks every once in awhile when I'm making mass adjustments. He was definitely a crack-slipper.
Either way, I don't think we're talking about a guy with any more than fleeting dynasty value. Odds are he's going to get remaindered once Andre Johnson returns. He's kind of like a Ron Dayne of WRs in that way....Fill-in starter for a few weeks, then back home on the waiver wire where he belongs.
Not so sure about that, F & L.
I think AJ and Kevin Walter will be the 1-2 punch
when AJ returns to the lineup.
Walter has really turned some heads, he knows
how to get open and hold onto the ball.
23 / 324 in the last 3 games.
I just don't see him fading into obscurity .
QUOTE (Ron_Mexico @ Oct 24 2007, 03:20 PM)
Not so sure about that, F & L.
I think AJ and Kevin Walter will be the 1-2 punch
when AJ returns to the lineup.
Walter has really turned some heads, he knows
how to get open and hold onto the ball.
23 / 324 in the last 3 games.
I just don't see him fading into obscurity .
I think AJ and Kevin Walter will be the 1-2 punch
when AJ returns to the lineup.
Walter has really turned some heads, he knows
how to get open and hold onto the ball.
23 / 324 in the last 3 games.
I just don't see him fading into obscurity .
A 1-2 punch with Andre Johnson? I just don't see it. Walter may have slight value in re-draft leagues, but he's a "sell to Ron Mexico" in dynasty leagues right now.
You pointed out his numbers the last 3 games where he played a prominent role while Johnson has been out. But that doesn't address my point: once Johnson returns, Walter is practically worthless in dynasty leagues.
Walter has been in Houston for a year and a half now. What are his numbers with Johnson healthy and in the lineup? What are his numbers with Johnson out of the lineup? It's night and day. Walter had as many yards in week 6 of this year as he had all of last year. He had 34 total yards after 3 weeks of this season. Then both Johnson AND Jacoby Jones got injured, which resulted in aberrant production from both Walter and Andre Davis.
Even if you don't want to consider that the 2nd WR for the Houston Texans has never had value, I don't think you should ignore the fact that Walter couldn't quite hold off 3rd round rookie Jacoby Jones for that role to start the season. Not to mention the fact that signs point to Jones usurping that 2nd WR role in the not-so-distant future.
QUOTE (Fear & Loathing @ Oct 24 2007, 04:55 PM)
QUOTE (Ron_Mexico @ Oct 24 2007, 03:20 PM)
Not so sure about that, F & L.
I think AJ and Kevin Walter will be the 1-2 punch
when AJ returns to the lineup.
Walter has really turned some heads, he knows
how to get open and hold onto the ball.
23 / 324 in the last 3 games.
I just don't see him fading into obscurity .
I think AJ and Kevin Walter will be the 1-2 punch
when AJ returns to the lineup.
Walter has really turned some heads, he knows
how to get open and hold onto the ball.
23 / 324 in the last 3 games.
I just don't see him fading into obscurity .
A 1-2 punch with Andre Johnson? I just don't see it. Walter may have slight value in re-draft leagues, but he's a "sell to Ron Mexico" in dynasty leagues right now.
You pointed out his numbers the last 3 games where he played a prominent role while Johnson has been out. But that doesn't address my point: once Johnson returns, Walter is practically worthless in dynasty leagues.
Walter has been in Houston for a year and a half now. What are his numbers with Johnson healthy and in the lineup? What are his numbers with Johnson out of the lineup? It's night and day. Walter had as many yards in week 6 of this year as he had all of last year. He had 34 total yards after 3 weeks of this season. Then both Johnson AND Jacoby Jones got injured, which resulted in aberrant production from both Walter and Andre Davis.
Even if you don't want to consider that the 2nd WR for the Houston Texans has never had value, I don't think you should ignore the fact that Walter couldn't quite hold off 3rd round rookie Jacoby Jones for that role to start the season. Not to mention the fact that signs point to Jones usurping that 2nd WR in the not-so-distant future.
agree 100%. Dyansty rankings have more to do with talent than weekly situational play.
QUOTE (benm3218 @ Oct 24 2007, 02:58 PM)
QUOTE (Fear & Loathing @ Oct 24 2007, 04:55 PM)
QUOTE (Ron_Mexico @ Oct 24 2007, 03:20 PM)
Not so sure about that, F & L.
I think AJ and Kevin Walter will be the 1-2 punch
when AJ returns to the lineup.
Walter has really turned some heads, he knows
how to get open and hold onto the ball.
23 / 324 in the last 3 games.
I just don't see him fading into obscurity .
I think AJ and Kevin Walter will be the 1-2 punch
when AJ returns to the lineup.
Walter has really turned some heads, he knows
how to get open and hold onto the ball.
23 / 324 in the last 3 games.
I just don't see him fading into obscurity .
A 1-2 punch with Andre Johnson? I just don't see it. Walter may have slight value in re-draft leagues, but he's a "sell to Ron Mexico" in dynasty leagues right now.
You pointed out his numbers the last 3 games where he played a prominent role while Johnson has been out. But that doesn't address my point: once Johnson returns, Walter is practically worthless in dynasty leagues.
Walter has been in Houston for a year and a half now. What are his numbers with Johnson healthy and in the lineup? What are his numbers with Johnson out of the lineup? It's night and day. Walter had as many yards in week 6 of this year as he had all of last year. He had 34 total yards after 3 weeks of this season. Then both Johnson AND Jacoby Jones got injured, which resulted in aberrant production from both Walter and Andre Davis.
Even if you don't want to consider that the 2nd WR for the Houston Texans has never had value, I don't think you should ignore the fact that Walter couldn't quite hold off 3rd round rookie Jacoby Jones for that role to start the season. Not to mention the fact that signs point to Jones usurping that 2nd WR in the not-so-distant future.
agree 100%. Dyansty rankings have more to do with talent than weekly situational play.
The problem is Kevin Walter has never had a chance to show off his talents
in a starting role for a significant period of time, in his entire career,
that is until now.
The talent he is displaying right now should not be so easily ignored.
.
Hey F&L, i know its early still, but i was wondering how much of Mcfadden and some of the other top prospects you have seen this year and where they would rank right now.
QUOTE (Ron_Mexico @ Oct 24 2007, 05:41 PM)
QUOTE (benm3218 @ Oct 24 2007, 02:58 PM)
QUOTE (Fear & Loathing @ Oct 24 2007, 04:55 PM)
QUOTE (Ron_Mexico @ Oct 24 2007, 03:20 PM)
Not so sure about that, F & L.
I think AJ and Kevin Walter will be the 1-2 punch
when AJ returns to the lineup.
Walter has really turned some heads, he knows
how to get open and hold onto the ball.
23 / 324 in the last 3 games.
I just don't see him fading into obscurity .
I think AJ and Kevin Walter will be the 1-2 punch
when AJ returns to the lineup.
Walter has really turned some heads, he knows
how to get open and hold onto the ball.
23 / 324 in the last 3 games.
I just don't see him fading into obscurity .
A 1-2 punch with Andre Johnson? I just don't see it. Walter may have slight value in re-draft leagues, but he's a "sell to Ron Mexico" in dynasty leagues right now.
You pointed out his numbers the last 3 games where he played a prominent role while Johnson has been out. But that doesn't address my point: once Johnson returns, Walter is practically worthless in dynasty leagues.
Walter has been in Houston for a year and a half now. What are his numbers with Johnson healthy and in the lineup? What are his numbers with Johnson out of the lineup? It's night and day. Walter had as many yards in week 6 of this year as he had all of last year. He had 34 total yards after 3 weeks of this season. Then both Johnson AND Jacoby Jones got injured, which resulted in aberrant production from both Walter and Andre Davis.
Even if you don't want to consider that the 2nd WR for the Houston Texans has never had value, I don't think you should ignore the fact that Walter couldn't quite hold off 3rd round rookie Jacoby Jones for that role to start the season. Not to mention the fact that signs point to Jones usurping that 2nd WR in the not-so-distant future.
agree 100%. Dyansty rankings have more to do with talent than weekly situational play.
The problem is Kevin Walter has never had a chance to show off his talents
in a starting role for a significant period of time, in his entire career,
that is until now.
The talent he is displaying right now should not be so easily ignored.
.
He's never had a chance to show off his talents in a starting role because his talents weren't greater than the other talents that the Texans have/had on their roster at WR, until those greater talents suffered injuries (plural, it took multiple players suffering injuries for Walter to get into the lineup).
I'm with F&L on this one, the value of Walter in a dynasty league seems fairly minimal.
QUOTE (SayWhat? @ Oct 24 2007, 07:22 PM)
QUOTE (Ron_Mexico @ Oct 24 2007, 05:41 PM)
QUOTE (benm3218 @ Oct 24 2007, 02:58 PM)
QUOTE (Fear & Loathing @ Oct 24 2007, 04:55 PM)
QUOTE (Ron_Mexico @ Oct 24 2007, 03:20 PM)
Not so sure about that, F & L.
I think AJ and Kevin Walter will be the 1-2 punch
when AJ returns to the lineup.
Walter has really turned some heads, he knows
how to get open and hold onto the ball.
23 / 324 in the last 3 games.
I just don't see him fading into obscurity .
I think AJ and Kevin Walter will be the 1-2 punch
when AJ returns to the lineup.
Walter has really turned some heads, he knows
how to get open and hold onto the ball.
23 / 324 in the last 3 games.
I just don't see him fading into obscurity .
A 1-2 punch with Andre Johnson? I just don't see it. Walter may have slight value in re-draft leagues, but he's a "sell to Ron Mexico" in dynasty leagues right now.
You pointed out his numbers the last 3 games where he played a prominent role while Johnson has been out. But that doesn't address my point: once Johnson returns, Walter is practically worthless in dynasty leagues.
Walter has been in Houston for a year and a half now. What are his numbers with Johnson healthy and in the lineup? What are his numbers with Johnson out of the lineup? It's night and day. Walter had as many yards in week 6 of this year as he had all of last year. He had 34 total yards after 3 weeks of this season. Then both Johnson AND Jacoby Jones got injured, which resulted in aberrant production from both Walter and Andre Davis.
Even if you don't want to consider that the 2nd WR for the Houston Texans has never had value, I don't think you should ignore the fact that Walter couldn't quite hold off 3rd round rookie Jacoby Jones for that role to start the season. Not to mention the fact that signs point to Jones usurping that 2nd WR in the not-so-distant future.
agree 100%. Dyansty rankings have more to do with talent than weekly situational play.
The problem is Kevin Walter has never had a chance to show off his talents
in a starting role for a significant period of time, in his entire career,
that is until now.
The talent he is displaying right now should not be so easily ignored.
.
He's never had a chance to show off his talents in a starting role because his talents weren't greater than the other talents that the Texans have/had on their roster at WR, until those greater talents suffered injuries (plural, it took multiple players suffering injuries for Walter to get into the lineup).
Almost exactly what I was going to say. He has never had a chance to show off his talents because the same coaching staff that's there now didn't believe he was an upgrade over a washed-up Eric Moulds last year or a raw 3rd round rookie in Jacoby Jones this year.
If someone like you believes this is the beginning of a lengthy and productive career for Kevin Walter, then I would still contend that Walter's only value in dynasty leagues is in trading him to Ron Mexico for a better talent.
QUOTE (Burning Sensation @ Oct 24 2007, 07:16 PM)
Hey F&L, i know its early still, but i was wondering how much of Mcfadden and some of the other top prospects you have seen this year and where they would rank right now.
I haven't seen McFadden play this year. I liked what little I saw of him last year and expect him to be a good NFL back, but I wasn't completely blown away like I was the first time I saw Adrian Peterson play.
The best player I've seen this year is Tim Tebow, and nobody else is even close. I was impressed by Andre Woodson of Kentucky, but Tebow is a break-the-mold type of QB.
Of course, I'll add the disclaimer that there are plenty of guys around here who are much more knowledgable about college football than I am.
I must say I was skeptical of Tony Scheffler's role in Denver with the signing of Daniel Graham, but he looked very good on Sunday night. Hopefully this injury remains a minor one, as has been reported, because he does appear to have the makings of a possible top-15 TE.
Through Week 7
2007 WORST PERSON IN FANTASY FOOTBALL AWARD
Pre-Season: Jack Del Rio
Week 1: Cam Cameron
Week 2: Cam Cameron / Norv Turner
Week 3: Rex Grossman / Lovie Smith
Week 4: Brad Childress
Week 5: Travis Henry
Week 6: Shaun Alexander / Adrian Peterson doubters
Week 7: Cleo Lemon + Randall Gay = Ronnie Brown
THRU WEEK 7 POWER RANKINGS
AFC
1. New England Patriots, 7-0 / +159 / 99.9%**
2. Indianapolis Colts, 6-0 / +98 / 99.5%
3. Pittsburgh Steelers, 4-2 / +82 / 83.7%
4. San Diego Chargers, 3-3 / +18 / 57.3%
5. Tennessee Titans, 4-2 / +24 / 77.6%
6. Jacksonville Jaguars, 4-2 / +20 / 65.0%
7. Baltimore Ravens, 4-3 / +5 / 19.3%
8. Kansas City Chiefs, 4-3 / -11 / 40.9%
NFC
1. Dallas Cowboys, 6-1 / +69 / 94.0%
2. Green Bay Packers, 5-1 / +35 / 93.0%
3. New York Giants 5-2 / +38 / 67.1%
4. Tampa Bay Buccaneers, 4-3 / +14 / 82.1%
5. Seattle Seahawks, 4-3 / +29 / 81.8%
6. Washington Redskins, 4-2 / +34 / 50.3%
7. Carolina Panthers 4-2 / +13 / 41.1%
8. Arizona Cardinals, 3-4 / -10 / 27.0%
Tie: Chicago Bears, 3-4 / -28 / 6.2%
**Football Outsiders Playoff Odds Report
2007 WORST PERSON IN FANTASY FOOTBALL AWARD
Pre-Season: Jack Del Rio
Week 1: Cam Cameron
Week 2: Cam Cameron / Norv Turner
Week 3: Rex Grossman / Lovie Smith
Week 4: Brad Childress
Week 5: Travis Henry
Week 6: Shaun Alexander / Adrian Peterson doubters
Week 7: Cleo Lemon + Randall Gay = Ronnie Brown
THRU WEEK 7 POWER RANKINGS
AFC
1. New England Patriots, 7-0 / +159 / 99.9%**
2. Indianapolis Colts, 6-0 / +98 / 99.5%
3. Pittsburgh Steelers, 4-2 / +82 / 83.7%
4. San Diego Chargers, 3-3 / +18 / 57.3%
5. Tennessee Titans, 4-2 / +24 / 77.6%
6. Jacksonville Jaguars, 4-2 / +20 / 65.0%
7. Baltimore Ravens, 4-3 / +5 / 19.3%
8. Kansas City Chiefs, 4-3 / -11 / 40.9%
NFC
1. Dallas Cowboys, 6-1 / +69 / 94.0%
2. Green Bay Packers, 5-1 / +35 / 93.0%
3. New York Giants 5-2 / +38 / 67.1%
4. Tampa Bay Buccaneers, 4-3 / +14 / 82.1%
5. Seattle Seahawks, 4-3 / +29 / 81.8%
6. Washington Redskins, 4-2 / +34 / 50.3%
7. Carolina Panthers 4-2 / +13 / 41.1%
8. Arizona Cardinals, 3-4 / -10 / 27.0%
Tie: Chicago Bears, 3-4 / -28 / 6.2%
**Football Outsiders Playoff Odds Report
QUOTE (johnnyshaka @ Oct 22 2007, 06:20 PM)
Thoughts on Ginn Jr.'s value now that he should see full-time snaps? I know it's the Dolphins but they should be playing from behind even more often now and he could definitely garner a lot of "garbage" time points.
Also, what are the odds that Beck sees the field in Week 10, after their bye?
Also, what are the odds that Beck sees the field in Week 10, after their bye?
Oops. I missed this one a couple of days ago...
Re: Ginn. I just don't know. If I had him on a roster, I think he'd be at "hold" stage right now. Watch him play the rest of the year and see how he does with this opportunity. He's very talented, so let's see if he can pick up the skill to go along with the talent. One problem I do see is that the immediate future looks awfully bleak for the Dolphins offense. Lemon is well below average as a passer, and Beck is an untested rookie....neither of which typically lead to having anything but a low-scoring offense, especially when the All-Pro caliber RB just went down for the year, the #1 WR just got traded, and the O-Line hasn't been strong in quite some time.
I think Beck will see some starts towards the end of the year because the Dolphins have to evaluate their future at that position. Green isn't likely to be back, and Lemon is back-up material. They bypassed Brady Quinn to grab Beck, so they're going to have to see what the direction of the offense is for next season. I don't know if I would pinpoint Week 10, but I do think we'll see Beck for at least the last month or so. At 26 years old, it's going to be now or never for John Beck....so a late season window of promise is even more important for Beck than a normal high round rookie QB.
QUOTE (valhallan @ Oct 24 2007, 08:27 PM)
I must say I was skeptical of Tony Scheffler's role in Denver with the signing of Daniel Graham, but he looked very good on Sunday night. Hopefully this injury remains a minor one, as has been reported, because he does appear to have the makings of a possible top-15 TE.
I was slightly concerned when Scheffler's injury caused a slow start to the season, but this situation is starting to play out how I thought it would. Despite the huge contract, the Broncos are using Graham just as he was used in New England -- as a mauler. As long as he stays healthy, I think you'll see Scheffler finish the season on a high note again. He's finally back to full health, he's had a good rapport with Cutler going back to last season, and the Broncos have a hole to fill in the passing game with Walker out 6 weeks.
One of the more interesting features at the Football Outsiders website is their roundtable e-mail exchange (called Audibles at the Line) during the games on Sundays.
I had meant to do this for a weeks now, but never got around to it. Anyway, below are some interesting player comments from their Week 7 exchange.
TRENT EDWARDS:
KYLE BOLLER:
BYRON LEFTWICH vs. JOEY HARRINGTON:
JERIOUS NORWOOD vs. WARRICK DUNN:
QUOTE OF THE DAY:
ELI MANNING:
INTERESTING RANDY MOSS DISCUSSION:
TARVARIS JACKSON:
SHORT NOTE ON ROETHISBERGER / CUTLER:
I had meant to do this for a weeks now, but never got around to it. Anyway, below are some interesting player comments from their Week 7 exchange.
TRENT EDWARDS:
QUOTE
Bill Barnwell: Trent Edwards makes a great throw to Roscoe Parrish against Samari Rolle on a go route that ends up with pass interference. The dropback looked much better. Unfortunately, Marshawn Lynch does his DeShaun Foster impersonation on first down and loses four. Then, on second down, Edwards runs a sweet play fake and makes an even better decision to throw it away when no-one’s open. Great throw by Boller against some sort of mutated Cover-2 the Bills ran — the perfect 20-yard out over some defensive back’s outstretched arms.
Stuart Fraser: Something else to note is that I’m pretty impressed with Trent Edwards. The Bills are doing a good job of pass protection (injuries to the Ravens are, of course, helping) but he generally seems to be pretty accurate, isn’t forcing throws into tight coverage, and generally looks more like an NFL quarterback than J.P. Losman does.
Mike Tanier: I remain impressed by Edwards, even after an ugly read and throw in the fourth quarter that almost turned the game around. Not only is Edwards smart with the ball, but he was running the no-huddle effectively for much of this game. Most importantly, he made a play or two down the field. I think of young dink-and-dunk quarterbacks like young junkball pitchers in baseball. A quarterback needs to have big-play ability to turn into a great player, otherwise he’s Rick Mirer. It was good to see Edwards uncork a few deep balls (one for a long gain to Evans, another to draw pass interference to Parrish) against a good defense.
Ryan Wilson: I, too, like Trent Edwards. And although he makes a lot of swell decisions most of the time, when he makes a mistake he doesn’t get cheated. Twice now he’s thrown a potentially back-breaking pick, and both times he’s stared a hole through his intended target. Generally speaking, I’m against drafting running backs early in the first round, but I absolutely love the way Marshawn Lynch plays. He only averaged 3.1 yards per carry, but imagine how what he’d have if Dick Jauron wasn’t afraid to OK a few pass plays. And unlike, say, Shaun Alexander, it takes two, sometimes three guys to get him down. Pretty awesome to watch.
Stuart Fraser: Something else to note is that I’m pretty impressed with Trent Edwards. The Bills are doing a good job of pass protection (injuries to the Ravens are, of course, helping) but he generally seems to be pretty accurate, isn’t forcing throws into tight coverage, and generally looks more like an NFL quarterback than J.P. Losman does.
Mike Tanier: I remain impressed by Edwards, even after an ugly read and throw in the fourth quarter that almost turned the game around. Not only is Edwards smart with the ball, but he was running the no-huddle effectively for much of this game. Most importantly, he made a play or two down the field. I think of young dink-and-dunk quarterbacks like young junkball pitchers in baseball. A quarterback needs to have big-play ability to turn into a great player, otherwise he’s Rick Mirer. It was good to see Edwards uncork a few deep balls (one for a long gain to Evans, another to draw pass interference to Parrish) against a good defense.
Ryan Wilson: I, too, like Trent Edwards. And although he makes a lot of swell decisions most of the time, when he makes a mistake he doesn’t get cheated. Twice now he’s thrown a potentially back-breaking pick, and both times he’s stared a hole through his intended target. Generally speaking, I’m against drafting running backs early in the first round, but I absolutely love the way Marshawn Lynch plays. He only averaged 3.1 yards per carry, but imagine how what he’d have if Dick Jauron wasn’t afraid to OK a few pass plays. And unlike, say, Shaun Alexander, it takes two, sometimes three guys to get him down. Pretty awesome to watch.
KYLE BOLLER:
QUOTE
Ryan Wilson: Kyle Boller, on the other hand, looks like he’s matured since he was starting back in ‘05. His fourth quarter touchdown pass to Derrick Mason was a laser that split three defenders. Perfect pass. Never thought I’d say that about Boller. To me, it seems obvious he should be the team’s starter from here on out, but I also think Billick should be relegated to the Joe Gibbs oversight role.
BYRON LEFTWICH vs. JOEY HARRINGTON:
QUOTE
Vince Verhei: Anyone who thinks quarterbacks have no impact on the yards their receivers gain after the catch needs to watch Byron Leftwich and Joey Harrington play for the same team in the same game. Harrington can find open receivers and throw accurate passes, but his arm is weak, his passes hang in the air, and defenders have time to close in and make immediate tackles. Leftwich, on the other hand, zips his passes in to receivers before defenders can react, giving them opportunities to make plays. Between that and his willingness to throw a pass more than 15 yards downfield once in a while, he’s clearly the better quarterback, despite his very… slow… release and tendency to stare down receivers. Of course, all that’s assuming his ankle injury doesn’t effect him all season.
JERIOUS NORWOOD vs. WARRICK DUNN:
QUOTE
Note to Bobby Petrino: Jerious Norwood is a much, much better running back than Warrick Dunn. He has a higher rushing DVOA. He has a higher receiving DVOA. He has a higher success rate. If you don’t have faith in advanced stats, well, he’s averaging 5.8 yards per carry to Dunn’s 3.1. And yet you continue to give Warrick Dunn the majority of the team’s carries every single week. This is stupid, Bobby. This is very, very stupid.
QUOTE OF THE DAY:
QUOTE
Doug Farrar: Play-by-play announcer Matt Vasgersian -- “There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Giants’ running game. While Tiki Barber sits on a couch every morning and talks about shoes and handbags with Ann Curry and Al Roker, Brandon Jacobs, Derrick Ward and Reuben Droughns are running wild.” Yee-ouch!
ELI MANNING:
QUOTE
I’m starting to come around ever so slightly on Elisha. He threw an exceptional pass to Amani Toomer at the end of the first half. He got the ball off with a defender hitting his throwing arm, but still threw it over Walt Harris’s head and right to Toomer on the run. There’s evidence of some development in his hard counts, the way he can extend a drive, the minimization of stupid risk throws. He’ll still throw a goatball once in while, but this is a better version of a quarterback who has never impressed me before.
INTERESTING RANDY MOSS DISCUSSION:
QUOTE
Bill Moore: Those two catches by Moss were insane. They should not have been caught. If anything, they both should have been intercepted. Dan Dierdorf said something pretty funny: “I don’t know of any other situation where a quarterback looks down the field, sees double coverage, and says, ‘Hey, I think I’ll go there.’” I’m not sure that’s the exact quote, but I’m too busy throwing up from quoting Dan Dierdorf.
Aaron Schatz: The fact that Norv Turner so discouraged Randy Moss that he went from this to an unspectacular starting wideout may be the best possible evidence that he’s the worst head coach in NFL history. Unless it is the best possible evidence that Art Shell is the worst head coach in NFL history.
Mike Tanier: Norv Turner didn’t really demoralize Randy Moss. He let Randy be Randy. Let him do whatever he wanted. And Art Shell was even worse. Randy isn’t exactly Mr. Work Ethic. It’s amazing what a guy can do when he is surrounded by coaches and teammates who won’t take any of his crap.
Sean McCormick: I actually have a different read on Moss. I think he, like many great players, is contemptuous of incompetence. He recognized it right away in Oakland and mailed in his performances. When he’s played with good quarterbacks, he’s played hard and produced. He clearly wants to win — he’s just not stupid.
Mike Tanier: Contemptuous of incompetence? Sounds like an excuse for “lazy.” If all Americans were “contemptuous of incompetence,” nothing would ever get done. We all have some incompetent co-workers or bosses. I’m a teacher. What am I supposed to do: Figure if my superintendent is a ninny then I can show movies every day? I know a lot of good, hard working players get dragged down by bad teams. Moss helped drag down a bad team. Big difference. Sure he “wants to win.” We all do. When you go in the tank in Week 2 because you don’t like the situation you are in, then you don’t want it that bad.
Sean McCormick: I really don’t see it that way. Chad Pennington talked about Moss and said that if you put good players around him, he’ll work hard, he’ll play hard, and he’ll generally be a fantastic teammate, and his pro career more or less backs that up.
Mike Tanier: So if he has a great situation around him he will try. And if he doesn’t have an ideal situation he will go out of his way to make the situation worse. Sounds like a model employee to me. I hope Tom Brady doesn’t get hurt, because if Matt Cassel comes in Moss will just give up and then go on every radio show complaining about the situation because he’s just too good to be saddled with such a bad quarterback.
Aaron Schatz: The fact that Norv Turner so discouraged Randy Moss that he went from this to an unspectacular starting wideout may be the best possible evidence that he’s the worst head coach in NFL history. Unless it is the best possible evidence that Art Shell is the worst head coach in NFL history.
Mike Tanier: Norv Turner didn’t really demoralize Randy Moss. He let Randy be Randy. Let him do whatever he wanted. And Art Shell was even worse. Randy isn’t exactly Mr. Work Ethic. It’s amazing what a guy can do when he is surrounded by coaches and teammates who won’t take any of his crap.
Sean McCormick: I actually have a different read on Moss. I think he, like many great players, is contemptuous of incompetence. He recognized it right away in Oakland and mailed in his performances. When he’s played with good quarterbacks, he’s played hard and produced. He clearly wants to win — he’s just not stupid.
Mike Tanier: Contemptuous of incompetence? Sounds like an excuse for “lazy.” If all Americans were “contemptuous of incompetence,” nothing would ever get done. We all have some incompetent co-workers or bosses. I’m a teacher. What am I supposed to do: Figure if my superintendent is a ninny then I can show movies every day? I know a lot of good, hard working players get dragged down by bad teams. Moss helped drag down a bad team. Big difference. Sure he “wants to win.” We all do. When you go in the tank in Week 2 because you don’t like the situation you are in, then you don’t want it that bad.
Sean McCormick: I really don’t see it that way. Chad Pennington talked about Moss and said that if you put good players around him, he’ll work hard, he’ll play hard, and he’ll generally be a fantastic teammate, and his pro career more or less backs that up.
Mike Tanier: So if he has a great situation around him he will try. And if he doesn’t have an ideal situation he will go out of his way to make the situation worse. Sounds like a model employee to me. I hope Tom Brady doesn’t get hurt, because if Matt Cassel comes in Moss will just give up and then go on every radio show complaining about the situation because he’s just too good to be saddled with such a bad quarterback.
TARVARIS JACKSON:
QUOTE
Aaron Schatz: One more note: Tarvaris Jackson is awful, just awful. He’s a walking, talking advertisement for the Lewin Career Forecast. No accuracy, awful decision-making, constantly flustered by pressure. Seriously, Dave should get twin tattoos of Jackson and Jason Campbell with the words “LEWIN CAREER FORECAST 4EVER” above them.
Ryan Wilson: There’s a very good case to be made that he shouldn’t have been a second-round pick. That selection was all on Fran Foley, who traded back into the second round to take him. Dave’s system puts the evaluation onus on the scouts, but this was the act of an underqualified executive who was fired soon after.
Ryan Wilson: There’s a very good case to be made that he shouldn’t have been a second-round pick. That selection was all on Fran Foley, who traded back into the second round to take him. Dave’s system puts the evaluation onus on the scouts, but this was the act of an underqualified executive who was fired soon after.
SHORT NOTE ON ROETHISBERGER / CUTLER:
QUOTE
Doug Farrar: That was one hell of a game. After it was over, I was surprised to see that Roethlisberger was sacked four times, only because he seems so hard to bring down. As he was in 2005, and as he certainly was against the Seahawks earlier this season. He would complete passes with defensive tackles draped on his back. Kind of a coming-out party for Jay Cutler against this defense as well.
Boller could be a decent buy low guy. He'll never be a great quarterback, but he could potentially develop into a Jake Delhomme type. I saw that TD pass he threw and it was indeed a thing of beauty. The guy would be an upgrade for a handful of teams in the league, so I think we could see him get a starting job at some point down the road (if not this season for Baltimore).
QUOTE (EBF @ Oct 24 2007, 11:31 PM)
Boller could be a decent buy low guy. He'll never be a great quarterback, but he could potentially develop into a Jake Delhomme type. I saw that TD pass he threw and it was indeed a thing of beauty. The guy would be an upgrade for a handful of teams in the league, so I think we could see him get a starting job at some point down the road (if not this season for Baltimore).
Mentally, I've always lumped Boller & J.P. Losman together. Both strong-armed reaches in the NFL draft, both very disappointing in their first couple of seasons, both destined to a bedouin lifestyle as patches rather than solutions, neither the most accurate, neither truly franchise quarterbacks, neither of them guys you want to count on as anything more than roster depth in dynasty leagues.
I agree Boller could be a decent buy low. But even if he lands a starting gig, I wouldn't ever expect to use him as anything more than a bye week filler. If he stays in Baltimore under Billick's playcalling, that goes double. It's worth mentioning, however, that Boller/Losman's greatest value is probably as a trade chip or throw-in on a larger deal when trading with a true believer. I have Boller sitting on my roster right now as my 5th QB, and the McNair owner has absolutely no interest even with Culpepper & Alex Smith as his other two QBs. I'll try to hold onto him until I can get a late round draft pick out of him or use him as a throw-in on another deal.
QUOTE (Fear & Loathing @ Oct 24 2007, 10:45 PM)
QUOTE (EBF @ Oct 24 2007, 11:31 PM)
Boller could be a decent buy low guy. He'll never be a great quarterback, but he could potentially develop into a Jake Delhomme type. I saw that TD pass he threw and it was indeed a thing of beauty. The guy would be an upgrade for a handful of teams in the league, so I think we could see him get a starting job at some point down the road (if not this season for Baltimore).
Mentally, I've always lumped Boller & J.P. Losman together. Both strong-armed reaches in the NFL draft, both very disappointing in their first couple of seasons, both destined to a bedouin lifestyle as patches rather than solutions, neither the most accurate, neither truly franchise quarterbacks, neither of them guys you want to count on as anything more than roster depth in dynasty leagues.
I agree Boller could be a decent buy low. But even if he lands a starting gig, I wouldn't ever expect to use him as anything more than a bye week filler. If he stays in Baltimore under Billick's playcalling, that goes double. It's worth mentioning, however, that Boller/Losman's greatest value is probably as a trade chip or throw-in on a larger deal when trading with a true believer. I have Boller sitting on my roster right now as my 5th QB, and the McNair owner has absolutely no interest even with Culpepper & Alex Smith as his other two QBs. I'll try to hold onto him until I can get a late round draft pick out of him or use him as a throw-in on another deal.
Yea, I mostly agree with your assessment. That's why I used Delhomme as a comparison for Boller. Jake isn't a great QB, but he landed in a decent situation and had some value for a few years. He never could've netted you an impact player, but you could've sold him for a decent prospect or rookie pick.
Any NFL QB who is even remotely decent inevitably sticks around the league for a long time. I don't think Kyle Boller will ever be a star, but he could start right now for the Vikings, Dolphins, Raiders, 49ers, and maybe a few other teams (Panthers, Falcons, Browns, Bears).
QUOTE (EBF @ Oct 24 2007, 11:51 PM)
Yea, I mostly agree with your assessment. That's why I used Delhomme as a comparison for Boller. Jake isn't a great QB, but he landed in a decent situation and had some value for a few years. He never could've netted you an impact player, but you could've sold him for a decent prospect or rookie pick.
Any NFL QB who is even remotely decent inevitably sticks around the league for a long time. I don't think Kyle Boller will ever be a star, but he could start right now for the Vikings, Dolphins, Raiders, 49ers, and maybe a few other teams (Panthers, Falcons, Browns, Bears).
Any NFL QB who is even remotely decent inevitably sticks around the league for a long time. I don't think Kyle Boller will ever be a star, but he could start right now for the Vikings, Dolphins, Raiders, 49ers, and maybe a few other teams (Panthers, Falcons, Browns, Bears).
So I guess you're like me. When you turn on a player, he's pretty much dead to you...
Alex Smith: from franchise to less appetizing than Boller in a month.
Re: the Vikings. I actually think Chad Pennington is a perfect match for that team. A dominant rushing attack + dominant rush defense is the perfect recipe for Pennington's pin-point accuracy, lack of verticality, ball control offense.
QUOTE (Fear & Loathing @ Oct 24 2007, 04:55 PM)
QUOTE (SayWhat? @ Oct 24 2007, 07:22 PM)
QUOTE (Ron_Mexico @ Oct 24 2007, 05:41 PM)
QUOTE (benm3218 @ Oct 24 2007, 02:58 PM)
QUOTE (Fear & Loathing @ Oct 24 2007, 04:55 PM)
QUOTE (Ron_Mexico @ Oct 24 2007, 03:20 PM)
Not so sure about that, F & L.
I think AJ and Kevin Walter will be the 1-2 punch
when AJ returns to the lineup.
Walter has really turned some heads, he knows
how to get open and hold onto the ball.
23 / 324 in the last 3 games.
I just don't see him fading into obscurity .
I think AJ and Kevin Walter will be the 1-2 punch
when AJ returns to the lineup.
Walter has really turned some heads, he knows
how to get open and hold onto the ball.
23 / 324 in the last 3 games.
I just don't see him fading into obscurity .
A 1-2 punch with Andre Johnson? I just don't see it. Walter may have slight value in re-draft leagues, but he's a "sell to Ron Mexico" in dynasty leagues right now.
You pointed out his numbers the last 3 games where he played a prominent role while Johnson has been out. But that doesn't address my point: once Johnson returns, Walter is practically worthless in dynasty leagues.
Walter has been in Houston for a year and a half now. What are his numbers with Johnson healthy and in the lineup? What are his numbers with Johnson out of the lineup? It's night and day. Walter had as many yards in week 6 of this year as he had all of last year. He had 34 total yards after 3 weeks of this season. Then both Johnson AND Jacoby Jones got injured, which resulted in aberrant production from both Walter and Andre Davis.
Even if you don't want to consider that the 2nd WR for the Houston Texans has never had value, I don't think you should ignore the fact that Walter couldn't quite hold off 3rd round rookie Jacoby Jones for that role to start the season. Not to mention the fact that signs point to Jones usurping that 2nd WR in the not-so-distant future.
agree 100%. Dyansty rankings have more to do with talent than weekly situational play.
The problem is Kevin Walter has never had a chance to show off his talents
in a starting role for a significant period of time, in his entire career,
that is until now.
The talent he is displaying right now should not be so easily ignored.
.
He's never had a chance to show off his talents in a starting role because his talents weren't greater than the other talents that the Texans have/had on their roster at WR, until those greater talents suffered injuries (plural, it took multiple players suffering injuries for Walter to get into the lineup).
Almost exactly what I was going to say. He has never had a chance to show off his talents because the same coaching staff that's there now didn't believe he was an upgrade over a washed-up Eric Moulds last year or a raw 3rd round rookie in Jacoby Jones this year.
If someone like you believes this is the beginning of a lengthy and productive career for Kevin Walter, then I would still contend that Walter's only value in dynasty leagues is in trading him to Ron Mexico for a better talent.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think this guy is
the next coming of Jerry Rice, and I won't overpay for him,
but I do think he's worth a flier off the wire in deep dynasty leagues.
Dude is at the end of my roster in a couple of leagues,
and I think he is worthy of a hold, he is making the best
of this opportunity, and if he continues on the pace of the last 3 games,
he will have earned a permanent starting role.
.
QUOTE (Ron_Mexico @ Oct 25 2007, 12:21 AM)
Don't get me wrong, I don't think this guy is
the next coming of Jerry Rice, and I won't overpay for him,
but I do think he's worth a flier off the wire in deep dynasty leagues.
Dude is at the end of my roster in a couple of leagues,
and I think he is worthy of a hold, he is making the best
of this opportunity, and if he continues on the pace of the last 3 games,
he will have earned a permanent starting role.
the next coming of Jerry Rice, and I won't overpay for him,
but I do think he's worth a flier off the wire in deep dynasty leagues.
Dude is at the end of my roster in a couple of leagues,
and I think he is worthy of a hold, he is making the best
of this opportunity, and if he continues on the pace of the last 3 games,
he will have earned a permanent starting role.
So it's not like you're gaga over him. Fair enough. I just thought that as insistent as you were, you must be awfully high on his future.
Summing up Kevin Walter in dynasty value: I think the time for a flier was 4 weeks ago (which you obviously took advantage of). He's got about 1 week left on his roster shelf-life before the onus should be on you to find someone more talented and more promising for that last roster spot.
QUOTE (Fear & Loathing @ Oct 24 2007, 11:07 PM)
QUOTE (EBF @ Oct 24 2007, 11:51 PM)
Yea, I mostly agree with your assessment. That's why I used Delhomme as a comparison for Boller. Jake isn't a great QB, but he landed in a decent situation and had some value for a few years. He never could've netted you an impact player, but you could've sold him for a decent prospect or rookie pick.
Any NFL QB who is even remotely decent inevitably sticks around the league for a long time. I don't think Kyle Boller will ever be a star, but he could start right now for the Vikings, Dolphins, Raiders, 49ers, and maybe a few other teams (Panthers, Falcons, Browns, Bears).
Any NFL QB who is even remotely decent inevitably sticks around the league for a long time. I don't think Kyle Boller will ever be a star, but he could start right now for the Vikings, Dolphins, Raiders, 49ers, and maybe a few other teams (Panthers, Falcons, Browns, Bears).
So I guess you're like me. When you turn on a player, he's pretty much dead to you...
Alex Smith: from franchise to less appetizing than Boller in a month.
Re: the Vikings. I actually think Chad Pennington is a perfect match for that team. A dominant rushing attack + dominant rush defense is the perfect recipe for Pennington's pin-point accuracy, lack of verticality, ball control offense.
My optimism with Alex Smith was based on his statistical improvement and his draft position. But it became apparent this year that he really hasn't taken any steps forward and isn't making the plays you need from your franchise QB. He has no excuses now with Gore, Davis, Jackson, Battle, and Lelie. A good QB would put points on the board with that supporting cast. MAYBE he'll turn it around, but I definitely rank him below Edwards, Quinn, and Russell at this point. I'd probably even trade him for a guy like Aaron Rodgers.
Regarding the Vikings, anyone would be an upgrade over the pitiful collection of passers that they have right now. Tarvaris Jackson might not just be the worst starting QB in the league, but the worst QB in the league period. I know Jackson is young and raw, but that team needs to add another body this offseason. Otherwise they're just killing themselves before they even step on the field. They won't ever win with the guys they have right now.
Hey, I just noticed today is the 1-year anniversary of the Dynasty Rankings thread.
Party time, everybody in the pool!
Party time, everybody in the pool!
QUOTE (Fear & Loathing @ Oct 26 2007, 11:55 AM)
Hey, I just noticed today is the 1-year anniversary of the Dynasty Rankings thread.
Party time, everybody in the pool!
Party time, everybody in the pool!
Incredible thread F&L...Really appreciate the hard work from yourself for this. Also appreciate the intelligent discussion between yourself and some other great posters.
Thanks.
Vincent Jackson should be moved down a tier.
QUOTE (AtomicDogg97 @ Oct 26 2007, 07:26 PM)
Vincent Jackson should be moved down a tier.
Hmmm...I could be convinced on this one. Why should he be moved down?
QUOTE (Fear & Loathing @ Oct 26 2007, 08:26 PM)
QUOTE (AtomicDogg97 @ Oct 26 2007, 07:26 PM)
Vincent Jackson should be moved down a tier.
Hmmm...I could be convinced on this one. Why should he be moved down?
I see VJax as a guy who struggles catching the ball, and hasn't exactly proven anything yet in the pros. Best year was last year at 27/453/6. He's averaging just over 3 catches a game this year, and we know for at least the next couple of years he'll at best be the #3 option, if he can stay the #1 WR.
The Chargers have also added a first round pick (Craig Davis) and traded a 2nd rounder for a former Pro Bowler (Chambers) in the last 6 months.
I'd rather have every other guy on the list below him until Reggie Brown. Which I think is about a wash.
[45] Vincent Jackson SD 24.7
[45] #Deion Branch SEA 28.2
[43] Mark Clayton BAL 25.2
[42] Donte Stallworth NE 26.8
TIER FIVE
[34] Ronald Curry OAK 28.4
[33] Greg Jennings GB 24.0
[32] #Darrell Jackson SF 28.8
[32] Roddy White ATL 25.8
[28] Reggie Brown PHI 26.7
Bryant Johnson becomes a UFA after this season. Do you think he could land as a starter somewhere?
QUOTE (Fear & Loathing @ Oct 24 2007, 05:55 PM)
Even if you don't want to consider that the 2nd WR for the Houston Texans has never had value, I don't think you should ignore the fact that Walter couldn't quite hold off 3rd round rookie Jacoby Jones for that role to start the season. Not to mention the fact that signs point to Jones usurping that 2nd WR role in the not-so-distant future.
I agreed with your posting except this part. The reason the Texans have never had a viable wr2 before this year is that they never had a QB other than David Carr. Carr could not go through progressions. He would make one read and then either dump off to the TE or the RB. THis is the exact reason why I only expected modest improvement, in FF production, from Owen Daniels (he is averaging about .5 points per game more this year than last year.) I expected Daniels to be a primary read more often, but expected Schaub to check down to the TE less often.
I am not saying that Walter, or anyone currently on the Texans roster, is a viable FF wr3 for dynasty purposes. However, I wouldn't dismiss it simply because it hasn't happened.
QUOTE (rabidfireweasel @ Oct 28 2007, 12:35 AM)
I am not saying that Walter, or anyone currently on the Texans roster, is a viable FF wr3 for dynasty purposes. However, I wouldn't dismiss it simply because it hasn't happened.
Maybe I should have been more clear on this one. I'm not dismissing the possibility of a non-Andre Johnson WR becoming a viable FF wr3 for the Texans simply because it hasn't happened. It could happen with the right player, perhaps Jacoby Jones down the line. What I am dismissing is the idea that Kevin Walter specifically would be the one to finally create long-term dynasty value out of the WR opposite a healthy Andre Johnson in Houston.
QUOTE (valhallan @ Oct 27 2007, 10:26 PM)
Bryant Johnson becomes a UFA after this season. Do you think he could land as a starter somewhere?
Sure, it's possible. But I've always thought he was overrated from the day the Cardinals used a 1st round pick on him. I think he would have to land in an ideal situation (like Wes Welker) in order to have value as a regular fantasy starter at WR. Going through depth charts around the league, I don't see a situation where he both fills a team need and makes a fantasy impact. Cleveland? Kansas City? Jacksonville? Oakland? Tennessee? Carolina? Tampa Bay? Minnesota with a new QB?
I'd say he's worth a flier if you have the roster space....you never know what the offseason will bring. But I wouldn't be counting on any value.
QUOTE (Onions @ Oct 26 2007, 04:19 PM)
Incredible thread F&L...Really appreciate the hard work from yourself for this. Also appreciate the intelligent discussion between yourself and some other great posters.
Thanks.
Thanks.
Thanks Onions. Much appreciated....you should join in the discussion more often.
Through Week 8
2007 WORST PERSON IN FANTASY FOOTBALL AWARD
Pre-Season: Jack Del Rio
Week 1: Cam Cameron
Week 2: Cam Cameron / Norv Turner
Week 3: Rex Grossman / Lovie Smith
Week 4: Brad Childress
Week 5: Travis Henry
Week 6: Shaun Alexander / Adrian Peterson doubters
Week 7: Cleo Lemon + Randall Gay = Ronnie Brown
Week 8: Anyone associated with the slopfest in Wembley Stadium / Out-of-their-minds Patriots bashers
THRU WEEK 8 POWER RANKINGS
AFC
1. New England Patriots, 8-0 / +204 / 99.9%
2. Indianapolis Colts, 7-0 / +122 / 99.7%
3. Pittsburgh Steelers, 5-2 / +93 / 89.5%
4. San Diego Chargers, 4-3 / +43 / 68.9%
5. Tennessee Titans, 5-2 / +28 / 81.1%
6. Jacksonville Jaguars, 5-2 / +21 / 70.7%
7. Baltimore Ravens, 4-3 / +5 / 9.3%
8. Cleveland Browns, 4-3 / -9 / 27.6%
NFC
1. Dallas Cowboys, 6-1 / +69 / 95.8%
2. Green Bay Packers, 5-1 / +35 / 97.2%
3. New York Giants 6-2 / +41 / 74.2%
4. Seattle Seahawks, 4-3 / +29 / 83.8%
5. Tampa Bay Buccaneers, 4-4 / +13 / 79.6%
6. New Orleans Saints, 3-4 / -30 / 19.6%
7. Detroit Lions, 5-2 / -22 / 35.4%
8. Washington Redskins, 4-3 / -11 / 33.8%
Tie: Carolina Panthers 4-3 / -11 / 29.2%
Couple of notes from the weekend:
In my long-time dynasty league, the same owner who got stuck on the shipping sink known as the end of Marshall Faulk's career has also been stuck on the sinking ship known as Shaun Alexander Post-2005. Another owner, fighting desperately for a chance at the last playoff spot at 4-3, threw him a life raft yesterday morning, sending LaMont Jordan and a 1st round pick his way for Alexander. I'm not high at all on Jordan's value either, but I thought he did very well to get a 1st round pick out of Alexander....especially when you could flip a coin to figure out who will be more productive the rest of '07 between Alexander and Jordan. Even better when you consider that the guy trading for Alexander lost again yesterday and is now outside looking in at the playoff picture. That pick could end up as the #4 or #5 overall. It always chaps my ace a little bit when a lesser owner bails out a good owner who knows how to exploit an opening...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not a Patriots fan, though I am an admitted fan of watching good football as opposed to bad football. I read through all of the Belichick-Patriots-Running Up the Score threads on here last night. The blind hatred, jealousy, wishing -- nay demanding -- serious injury on Patriots players....congratulations, you're either a witless Jerry Springer Show reject or a future Darwin Award winner. Your utter incapacity to understand hypocrisy would be sublimely ironic if it wasn't so disheartening.
So the Patriots make the Hell's Angels look like manacled pansies? Big forking deal. It's professional football! I'm not going to get into the "play better defense if you don't want to get embarrassed" or "take out your starters if you want me to take out mine" arguments. Those points have been made....and have largely fallen on deaf ears. What hasn't been mentioned is that Bill Belichick is an iconoclastic football visionary. He thinks outside the box. I don't mean that in a kiss the ###hole's ### kind of way. I mean he's been iconoclastic his whole tenure in New England, and he truly is a football visionary in the strict sense of the description. To wit:
For decades upon decades hidebound conservative football coaches from high school to the pros have embraced the concept of running out the clock to preserve a win. You could argue that sportsmanship was at work here, but it's always been more about lessening risk and believing that it gave your team the best chance to come away with victory. It's the same idea that breeds calling for your RB to tip-toe into the pile for 2 or 3 plays before a game-winning successful field goal or a game-losing missed field goal. What if we fumble?! The goal isn't to successfully gain yardage. In fact, there is no goal to having your back tip-toe into a pile. That's the problem. It's an aimless philosphy. To quote HST and Tom Wolfe respectively: it's an "atavistic endeavor" or a "behavioral sink." It's also been called the "playing not to lose rather than playing to win" strategy.
The problem with this strategy is that it artificially extracts the aggressiveness inherent in the game of football and replaces it with passiveness and uncertainty. Don't get me wrong, some teams do it well and maintain their aggressiveness. I grew up watching the Bengals every week and saw Jerome Bettis and the Steelers time and again impose their will on the Bengals by running the ball down their throats for a full 2nd half. Nobody accused them of running up the score because it takes longer to run the ball all the way down the field than it does to pass the ball....and it's the accepted form of physical and mental domination handed down from generation to generation in football.
So where does that leave a team whose offense is truly dominant only when the threat of the pass exists and may struggle to impose their will on the defense solely via the rushing attack? I saw the Packers completely dominate the Bears in the 1st half a few Sunday nights ago only to run the ball into the line of scrimmage every time they got the ball in the 3rd quarter. And what came next? Once they stopped playing to win the game, once they lost their aggressiveness, the Bears found their own aggressiveness. The Packers lost the game because they were more concerned with running out the clock in the 3rd quarter than they were with actually running successful football plays.
What Bill Belichick has done is to push-button reject this traditional way of coaching football with a lead. You can call it running up the score. He's going to call it playing football the way it should be played. And you see it in the way his players continue to compete that they haven't mentally checked out of the game simply due to playing with a lead. Tom Brady was just as intense up 38 points as he was when the game started. Coaches have been preaching this to their players for decades, but you don't often see it. Most teams check out mentally once they get a big lead....to some extent it's only natural. Up by 30+ points, Tom Brady spikes the ball in the endzone like he just dove in for the winning TD. He chews out his O-lineman for a stupid penalty. This is what coaches of basketball, baseball, and every other team sport have been always been striving for: a team that doesn't let up just because they have a big lead.
Bob Knight used to say you don't compete against the other team. You compete against the game of basketball. Similarly for Belichick in football. You compete to play perfect football. You never lose your aggressiveness on the field simply because conventional wisdom warrants it. When you get a big lead, you don't run the ball into the pile and stop trying to be successful on offense. You continue to impose your will on the other team by doing what your offense does best. For the Pittsburgh Steelers, that was traditionally slamming Jerome Bettis down their opponents' throats throughout the 2nd half. For this year's Patriots, that means Tom Brady picking apart your defense like a scorched earth policy. Bill Belichick is ensuring victory by allowing his team to maintain aggressive football. He is playing to win. He's just doing it a new fashion. Let other coaches play not to lose.
As a football fan, what would you rather watch? An offense running their 4th string RB into the pile for the last 25 minutes of the game or an offense continuing to play football until the other team's will is broken? I'll take the offense that keeps playing. Passive and aimless football is a flat-out unwatchable abomination. Either way, Belichick's new philosophy is here to stay. And it will be copied down the road if another coach has the same opportunity. It's a successful strategy for winning games, and this is a copycat league.
2007 WORST PERSON IN FANTASY FOOTBALL AWARD
Pre-Season: Jack Del Rio
Week 1: Cam Cameron
Week 2: Cam Cameron / Norv Turner
Week 3: Rex Grossman / Lovie Smith
Week 4: Brad Childress
Week 5: Travis Henry
Week 6: Shaun Alexander / Adrian Peterson doubters
Week 7: Cleo Lemon + Randall Gay = Ronnie Brown
Week 8: Anyone associated with the slopfest in Wembley Stadium / Out-of-their-minds Patriots bashers
THRU WEEK 8 POWER RANKINGS
AFC
1. New England Patriots, 8-0 / +204 / 99.9%
2. Indianapolis Colts, 7-0 / +122 / 99.7%
3. Pittsburgh Steelers, 5-2 / +93 / 89.5%
4. San Diego Chargers, 4-3 / +43 / 68.9%
5. Tennessee Titans, 5-2 / +28 / 81.1%
6. Jacksonville Jaguars, 5-2 / +21 / 70.7%
7. Baltimore Ravens, 4-3 / +5 / 9.3%
8. Cleveland Browns, 4-3 / -9 / 27.6%
NFC
1. Dallas Cowboys, 6-1 / +69 / 95.8%
2. Green Bay Packers, 5-1 / +35 / 97.2%
3. New York Giants 6-2 / +41 / 74.2%
4. Seattle Seahawks, 4-3 / +29 / 83.8%
5. Tampa Bay Buccaneers, 4-4 / +13 / 79.6%
6. New Orleans Saints, 3-4 / -30 / 19.6%
7. Detroit Lions, 5-2 / -22 / 35.4%
8. Washington Redskins, 4-3 / -11 / 33.8%
Tie: Carolina Panthers 4-3 / -11 / 29.2%
Couple of notes from the weekend:
In my long-time dynasty league, the same owner who got stuck on the shipping sink known as the end of Marshall Faulk's career has also been stuck on the sinking ship known as Shaun Alexander Post-2005. Another owner, fighting desperately for a chance at the last playoff spot at 4-3, threw him a life raft yesterday morning, sending LaMont Jordan and a 1st round pick his way for Alexander. I'm not high at all on Jordan's value either, but I thought he did very well to get a 1st round pick out of Alexander....especially when you could flip a coin to figure out who will be more productive the rest of '07 between Alexander and Jordan. Even better when you consider that the guy trading for Alexander lost again yesterday and is now outside looking in at the playoff picture. That pick could end up as the #4 or #5 overall. It always chaps my ace a little bit when a lesser owner bails out a good owner who knows how to exploit an opening...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not a Patriots fan, though I am an admitted fan of watching good football as opposed to bad football. I read through all of the Belichick-Patriots-Running Up the Score threads on here last night. The blind hatred, jealousy, wishing -- nay demanding -- serious injury on Patriots players....congratulations, you're either a witless Jerry Springer Show reject or a future Darwin Award winner. Your utter incapacity to understand hypocrisy would be sublimely ironic if it wasn't so disheartening.
So the Patriots make the Hell's Angels look like manacled pansies? Big forking deal. It's professional football! I'm not going to get into the "play better defense if you don't want to get embarrassed" or "take out your starters if you want me to take out mine" arguments. Those points have been made....and have largely fallen on deaf ears. What hasn't been mentioned is that Bill Belichick is an iconoclastic football visionary. He thinks outside the box. I don't mean that in a kiss the ###hole's ### kind of way. I mean he's been iconoclastic his whole tenure in New England, and he truly is a football visionary in the strict sense of the description. To wit:
For decades upon decades hidebound conservative football coaches from high school to the pros have embraced the concept of running out the clock to preserve a win. You could argue that sportsmanship was at work here, but it's always been more about lessening risk and believing that it gave your team the best chance to come away with victory. It's the same idea that breeds calling for your RB to tip-toe into the pile for 2 or 3 plays before a game-winning successful field goal or a game-losing missed field goal. What if we fumble?! The goal isn't to successfully gain yardage. In fact, there is no goal to having your back tip-toe into a pile. That's the problem. It's an aimless philosphy. To quote HST and Tom Wolfe respectively: it's an "atavistic endeavor" or a "behavioral sink." It's also been called the "playing not to lose rather than playing to win" strategy.
The problem with this strategy is that it artificially extracts the aggressiveness inherent in the game of football and replaces it with passiveness and uncertainty. Don't get me wrong, some teams do it well and maintain their aggressiveness. I grew up watching the Bengals every week and saw Jerome Bettis and the Steelers time and again impose their will on the Bengals by running the ball down their throats for a full 2nd half. Nobody accused them of running up the score because it takes longer to run the ball all the way down the field than it does to pass the ball....and it's the accepted form of physical and mental domination handed down from generation to generation in football.
So where does that leave a team whose offense is truly dominant only when the threat of the pass exists and may struggle to impose their will on the defense solely via the rushing attack? I saw the Packers completely dominate the Bears in the 1st half a few Sunday nights ago only to run the ball into the line of scrimmage every time they got the ball in the 3rd quarter. And what came next? Once they stopped playing to win the game, once they lost their aggressiveness, the Bears found their own aggressiveness. The Packers lost the game because they were more concerned with running out the clock in the 3rd quarter than they were with actually running successful football plays.
What Bill Belichick has done is to push-button reject this traditional way of coaching football with a lead. You can call it running up the score. He's going to call it playing football the way it should be played. And you see it in the way his players continue to compete that they haven't mentally checked out of the game simply due to playing with a lead. Tom Brady was just as intense up 38 points as he was when the game started. Coaches have been preaching this to their players for decades, but you don't often see it. Most teams check out mentally once they get a big lead....to some extent it's only natural. Up by 30+ points, Tom Brady spikes the ball in the endzone like he just dove in for the winning TD. He chews out his O-lineman for a stupid penalty. This is what coaches of basketball, baseball, and every other team sport have been always been striving for: a team that doesn't let up just because they have a big lead.
Bob Knight used to say you don't compete against the other team. You compete against the game of basketball. Similarly for Belichick in football. You compete to play perfect football. You never lose your aggressiveness on the field simply because conventional wisdom warrants it. When you get a big lead, you don't run the ball into the pile and stop trying to be successful on offense. You continue to impose your will on the other team by doing what your offense does best. For the Pittsburgh Steelers, that was traditionally slamming Jerome Bettis down their opponents' throats throughout the 2nd half. For this year's Patriots, that means Tom Brady picking apart your defense like a scorched earth policy. Bill Belichick is ensuring victory by allowing his team to maintain aggressive football. He is playing to win. He's just doing it a new fashion. Let other coaches play not to lose.
As a football fan, what would you rather watch? An offense running their 4th string RB into the pile for the last 25 minutes of the game or an offense continuing to play football until the other team's will is broken? I'll take the offense that keeps playing. Passive and aimless football is a flat-out unwatchable abomination. Either way, Belichick's new philosophy is here to stay. And it will be copied down the road if another coach has the same opportunity. It's a successful strategy for winning games, and this is a copycat league.
Micheal Bush dropped from almost a full tier from low 4 to low 5, any reason for this, i haven't heard much of anything out of Oakland about him...perhaps the reason?
QUOTE (2and2is5 @ Oct 29 2007, 01:22 PM)
Micheal Bush dropped from almost a full tier from low 4 to low 5, any reason for this, i haven't heard much of anything out of Oakland about him...perhaps the reason?
He did?
If so, it wasn't recently. I've had him in roughly the same spot for awhile now. I agree that we haven't heard much out of Oakland about him and maybe he'd move up once we get some solid info on his progress.
Micheal Bush has been taken off the pup and has been added to the 53 man roster
Contra Costa Times
Contra Costa Times
QUOTE (Fear & Loathing @ Oct 29 2007, 02:22 PM)
QUOTE (2and2is5 @ Oct 29 2007, 01:22 PM)
Micheal Bush dropped from almost a full tier from low 4 to low 5, any reason for this, i haven't heard much of anything out of Oakland about him...perhaps the reason?
He did?
If so, it wasn't recently. I've had him in roughly the same spot for awhile now. I agree that we haven't heard much out of Oakland about him and maybe he'd move up once we get some solid info on his progress.
my mistake, you have him ranked around #44 RB after week 6, and #47 after week 8, basically the same, however the tier's have changed, that range went from being a teir 4 back to tier 5, thats all...
QUOTE (new guru)
Micheal Bush has been taken off the pup and has been added to the 53 man roster
Contra Costa Times
Contra Costa Times
certainly good news
A few moves you may want to consider.
Aaron Rodgers. He had an excellent preseason for the first time in his career. Yes, I know its only preseason, and I also know that Favre is likely to play yet another year. But it does seem as though Rodgers has turned the corner, and he will eventually get his turn. I think he belongs in the Kolb/Stanton area for now.
Its becoming increasingly clear that Brady Quinn is going to be stuck behind Derek Anderson for some time. It may be time to downgrade him. I would put him around that same area as Kolb/Rodgers and Stanton.
Finally, I think it may be time to consider moving up Greg Jennings. I am a GB homer, and may have some bias here, but I think he's shown just as much as Santonio Holmes has. He had a high ankle sprain from week 6 on last year, and still put up numbers just short of Holmes. This year he's scored in 4 of his 5 games, and put up good yardage totals as well. I understand Holmes has the stability of a 25 year old Roethlisberger. Jennings is relying on a 38 year old Favre. I do think Favre will be back for another year however, and while he's by no means Big Ben, Rodgers is now inspiring a bit of confidence in me.
Aaron Rodgers. He had an excellent preseason for the first time in his career. Yes, I know its only preseason, and I also know that Favre is likely to play yet another year. But it does seem as though Rodgers has turned the corner, and he will eventually get his turn. I think he belongs in the Kolb/Stanton area for now.
Its becoming increasingly clear that Brady Quinn is going to be stuck behind Derek Anderson for some time. It may be time to downgrade him. I would put him around that same area as Kolb/Rodgers and Stanton.
Finally, I think it may be time to consider moving up Greg Jennings. I am a GB homer, and may have some bias here, but I think he's shown just as much as Santonio Holmes has. He had a high ankle sprain from week 6 on last year, and still put up numbers just short of Holmes. This year he's scored in 4 of his 5 games, and put up good yardage totals as well. I understand Holmes has the stability of a 25 year old Roethlisberger. Jennings is relying on a 38 year old Favre. I do think Favre will be back for another year however, and while he's by no means Big Ben, Rodgers is now inspiring a bit of confidence in me.
QUOTE (Kitrick Taylor @ Oct 30 2007, 08:03 PM)
A few moves you may want to consider.
Aaron Rodgers. He had an excellent preseason for the first time in his career. Yes, I know its only preseason, and I also know that Favre is likely to play yet another year. But it does seem as though Rodgers has turned the corner, and he will eventually get his turn. I think he belongs in the Kolb/Stanton area for now.
Its becoming increasingly clear that Brady Quinn is going to be stuck behind Derek Anderson for some time. It may be time to downgrade him. I would put him around that same area as Kolb/Rodgers and Stanton.
Finally, I think it may be time to consider moving up Greg Jennings. I am a GB homer, and may have some bias here, but I think he's shown just as much as Santonio Holmes has. He had a high ankle sprain from week 6 on last year, and still put up numbers just short of Holmes. This year he's scored in 4 of his 5 games, and put up good yardage totals as well. I understand Holmes has the stability of a 25 year old Roethlisberger. Jennings is relying on a 38 year old Favre. I do think Favre will be back for another year however, and while he's by no means Big Ben, Rodgers is now inspiring a bit of confidence in me.
Aaron Rodgers. He had an excellent preseason for the first time in his career. Yes, I know its only preseason, and I also know that Favre is likely to play yet another year. But it does seem as though Rodgers has turned the corner, and he will eventually get his turn. I think he belongs in the Kolb/Stanton area for now.
Its becoming increasingly clear that Brady Quinn is going to be stuck behind Derek Anderson for some time. It may be time to downgrade him. I would put him around that same area as Kolb/Rodgers and Stanton.
Finally, I think it may be time to consider moving up Greg Jennings. I am a GB homer, and may have some bias here, but I think he's shown just as much as Santonio Holmes has. He had a high ankle sprain from week 6 on last year, and still put up numbers just short of Holmes. This year he's scored in 4 of his 5 games, and put up good yardage totals as well. I understand Holmes has the stability of a 25 year old Roethlisberger. Jennings is relying on a 38 year old Favre. I do think Favre will be back for another year however, and while he's by no means Big Ben, Rodgers is now inspiring a bit of confidence in me.
You raise some good points. Here's my take on the two players:
Aaron Rodgers is probably the one player over the past couple of seasons whose value depends almost entirely on league size and roster size. If you have large rosters and a 16-owner league, he's a good use of a roster stash. If you have a roster limit of 20 in a 12-owner league, he's virtually valueless. In my 12-owner league with a roster size of 21 players (and 2 IR spots), Rodgers is currently unowned and has probably been on the waiver wire for all but 3 or 4 weeks for the past 2 years.
As far as his abilities and promise, I'll certainly defer to you on that one if you're a GB homer. He's been largely unimpressive his first couple of seasons, but I do remember that he appeared to put things together this pre-season. I don't think my read on his future has changed since I wrote this back in late August on page 14:
QUOTE
As much as the Packers publicly stand by Rodgers as their future, many around football have questioned their commitment to him and belief in him as a franchise QB. On the other hand, he was young coming into the league, and I think it's helped him a lot to have the luxury of sitting for a few years, learning the offense, the speed of the game, and maturing. He's been impressive this year in pre-season action. If Favre retires after this season (never a sure thing), then I do think Rodgers will get a shot to take over. Is he good enough to take advantage of that opportunity? I don't know. I've never gotten a good read on his talent. It wouldn't surprise me if he goes one and done and the Packers have to bring in either veteran competition or an outright replacment.
I'll probably move him up a little bit as the season goes on.
RE: Jennings vs. Santonio Holmes. I do like Jennings, and I advocated buying low on him all offseason, but I think Holmes is the more talented player. What's more, Holmes is guaranteed to play full time snaps and could conceivably take over the go-to role in the offense from Hines Ward. Jennings and Driver may be in a similar situation, but there's also a James Jones factor. Do you feel like Jennings is a much better bet to be the #1 WR in the future than Jones is? I think Driver will bounce back with some bigger numbers in the 2nd half of the season, but I don't know who will put up better numbers between Jennings and Jones. Now that Jennings is fully healthy, I'll probably move him up a bit coming off of last night's game. But I think his short history in the league has been marked by persistent injuries whereas Santonio Holmes doesn't really have an injury factor attached to his name. That and the talent edge have Santonio Holmes a tier higher in my eyes.
A couple quick thoughts on the current rankings:
1.) I think LenDale White should be higher. I understand if people have doubts about his talent. So do I. But he's a top 20 RB in most of my leagues and he just now seems to be hitting his stride. Assuming that he stays healthy and continues to produce at his current level, he will finish as a top 15-20 RB and will likely be considered a consensus top 20 dynasty RB entering the 2008 season. You have him as the RB27 right now. I think he should be about 10 spots higher. Right underneath Marion Barber looks like the right slot for White right now. Two weeks ago I was down on his prospects, but his trade value should be very solid this offseason regardless of whether or not he's truly an elite RB.
2.) Mewelde Moore is a guy to keep an eye on. I snagged him off waivers last week in a PPR dynasty and feel like I might have gotten a steal. He's a decent player and if you go back and look at his history he actually has a pretty good track record in games where he gets 15-20 carries. Is he a stud? No. Could he have a huge jump in value with the right change of scenery? Yes. He becomes a very interesting player if he lucks his way into a starting role or even a RBBC gig (he's a free agent this offseason). Stranger things have happened. I consider him roughly equivalent in value to most of the guys in the bottom of your fifth tier. I would rather have him than Brian Leonard and Jesse Chatman. I'm not convinced that he's any worse than guys like Betts and B. Jackson. A bad situation in Minnesota has obscured the fact that Mewelde is a pretty good football player.
3.) It's starting to look like Greg Olsen is destined to become a very good receiving TE. You already have him pretty high, but I could definitely see him jumping up into the top 6-7 in the near future. I'd probably bump him ahead of Dallas Clark and Heath Miller since he seems more likely than those two to become a truly dynamic TE.
1.) I think LenDale White should be higher. I understand if people have doubts about his talent. So do I. But he's a top 20 RB in most of my leagues and he just now seems to be hitting his stride. Assuming that he stays healthy and continues to produce at his current level, he will finish as a top 15-20 RB and will likely be considered a consensus top 20 dynasty RB entering the 2008 season. You have him as the RB27 right now. I think he should be about 10 spots higher. Right underneath Marion Barber looks like the right slot for White right now. Two weeks ago I was down on his prospects, but his trade value should be very solid this offseason regardless of whether or not he's truly an elite RB.
2.) Mewelde Moore is a guy to keep an eye on. I snagged him off waivers last week in a PPR dynasty and feel like I might have gotten a steal. He's a decent player and if you go back and look at his history he actually has a pretty good track record in games where he gets 15-20 carries. Is he a stud? No. Could he have a huge jump in value with the right change of scenery? Yes. He becomes a very interesting player if he lucks his way into a starting role or even a RBBC gig (he's a free agent this offseason). Stranger things have happened. I consider him roughly equivalent in value to most of the guys in the bottom of your fifth tier. I would rather have him than Brian Leonard and Jesse Chatman. I'm not convinced that he's any worse than guys like Betts and B. Jackson. A bad situation in Minnesota has obscured the fact that Mewelde is a pretty good football player.
3.) It's starting to look like Greg Olsen is destined to become a very good receiving TE. You already have him pretty high, but I could definitely see him jumping up into the top 6-7 in the near future. I'd probably bump him ahead of Dallas Clark and Heath Miller since he seems more likely than those two to become a truly dynamic TE.
I think Addai is clearly a tier 1 RB. I doubt there are many Gore owners out there right now that wouldnt jump all over a straight up trade for Addai. Dynasty or redraft
QUOTE (Little Big Head @ Oct 30 2007, 10:27 PM)
I think Addai is clearly a tier 1 RB. I doubt there are many Gore owners out there right now that wouldnt jump all over a straight up trade for Addai. Dynasty or redraft
I know you have always been a huge fan of Ronnie Brown, and I agree that he has all the tools to be a difference maker in the NFL. His value definitely took a hit with the knee injury, but why do you have him falling from a top 6-7 player to the 3rd tier? It may take him some time to recover, but he has shown that he has the work ethic to come back, he is young, and he should be back to full form for a playoff run next year. Just wondering what your thought process is regarding this...
QUOTE (Fear & Loathing @ Oct 29 2007, 01:19 PM)
Through Week 8
2007 WORST PERSON IN FANTASY FOOTBALL AWARD
Pre-Season: Jack Del Rio
Week 1: Cam Cameron
Week 2: Cam Cameron / Norv Turner
Week 3: Rex Grossman / Lovie Smith
Week 4: Brad Childress
Week 5: Travis Henry
Week 6: Shaun Alexander / Adrian Peterson doubters
Week 7: Cleo Lemon + Randall Gay = Ronnie Brown
Week 8: Anyone associated with the slopfest in Wembley Stadium / Out-of-their-minds Patriots bashers
THRU WEEK 8 POWER RANKINGS
AFC
1. New England Patriots, 8-0 / +204
2. Indianapolis Colts, 7-0 / +122
3. Pittsburgh Steelers, 5-2 / +93
4. San Diego Chargers, 4-3 / +43
5. Tennessee Titans, 5-2 / +28
6. Jacksonville Jaguars, 5-2 / +21
7. Baltimore Ravens, 4-3 / +5
8. Cleveland Browns, 4-3 / -9
NFC
1. Dallas Cowboys, 6-1 / +69
2. Green Bay Packers, 5-1 / +35
3. New York Giants 6-2 / +41
4. Seattle Seahawks, 4-3 / +29 / 81.8%
5. Tampa Bay Buccaneers, 4-4 / +13
6. New Orleans Saints, 3-4 / -30
7. Detroit Lions, 5-2 / -22
8. Washington Redskins, 4-3 / -11
Tie: Carolina Panthers 4-3 / -11
Couple of notes from the weekend:
In my long-time dynasty league, the same owner who got stuck on the shipping sink known as the end of Marshall Faulk's career has also been stuck on the sinking ship known as Shaun Alexander Post-2005. Another owner, fighting desperately for a chance at the last playoff spot at 4-3, threw him a life raft yesterday morning, sending LaMont Jordan and a 1st round pick his way for Alexander. I'm not high at all on Jordan's value either, but I thought he did very well to get a 1st round pick out of Alexander....especially when you could flip a coin to figure out who will be more productive the rest of '07 between Alexander and Jordan. Even better when you consider that the guy trading for Alexander lost again yesterday and is now outside looking in at the playoff picture. That pick could end up as the #4 or #5 overall. It always chaps my ace a little bit when a lesser owner bails out a good owner who knows how to exploit an opening...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not a Patriots fan, though I am an admitted fan of watching good football as opposed to bad football. I read through all of the Belichick-Patriots-Running Up the Score threads on here last night. The blind hatred, jealousy, wishing -- nay demanding -- serious injury on Patriots players....congratulations, you're either a witless Jerry Springer Show reject or a future Darwin Award winner. Your utter incapacity to understand hypocrisy would be sublimely ironic if it wasn't so disheartening.
So the Patriots make the Hell's Angels look like manacled pansies? Big forking deal. It's professional football! I'm not going to get into the "play better defense if you don't want to get embarrassed" or "take out your starters if you want me to take out mine" arguments. Those points have been made....and have largely fallen on deaf ears. What hasn't been mentioned is that Bill Belichick is a iconoclastic football visionary. He thinks outside the box. I don't mean that in a kiss the ###hole's ### kind of way. I mean he's been iconoclastic his whole tenure in New England, and he truly is a football visionary in the strict sense of the description. To wit:
For decades upon decades hidebound conservative football coaches from high school to the pros have embraced the concept of running out the clock to preserve a win. You could argue that sportsmanship was at work here, but it's always been more about lessening risk and believing that it gave your team the best chance to come away with victory. It's the same idea that breeds calling for your RB to tip-toe into the pile for 2 or 3 plays before a game-winning successful field goal or a game-losing missed field goal. What if we fumble?! The goal isn't to successfully gain yardage. In fact, there is no goal to having your back tip-toe into a pile. That's the problem. It's an aimless philosphy. To quote Hunter S. Thompson and Tom Wolfe respectively: it's an "atavistic endeavor" or a "behavioral sink." It's also been called the "playing not to lose rather than playing to win" strategy.
The problem with this strategy is that it artificially extracts the aggressiveness inherent in the game of football and replaces it with passiveness and uncertainty. Don't get me wrong, some teams do it well and maintain their aggressiveness. I grew up watching the Bengals every week and saw Jerome Bettis and the Steelers time and again impose their will on the Bengals by running the ball down their throats for a full 2nd half. Nobody accused them of running up the score because it takes longer to run the ball all the way down the field than it does to pass the ball....and it's the accepted form of physical and mental domination handed down from generation to generation in football.
So where does that leave a team whose offense is truly dominant only when the threat of the pass exists and may struggle to impose their will on the defense solely via the rushing attack? I saw the Packers completely dominate the Bears in the 1st half a few Sunday nights ago only to run the ball into the line of scrimmage every time they got the ball in the 3rd quarter. And what came next? Once they stopped playing to win the game, once they lost their aggressiveness, the Bears found their own aggressiveness. The Packers lost the game because they were more concerned with running out the clock in the 3rd quarter than they were with actually running successful football plays.
What Bill Belichick has done is to push-button reject this traditional way of coaching football with a lead. You can call it running up the score. He's going to call it playing football the way it should be played. And you see it in the way his players continue to compete that they haven't mentally checked out of the game simply due to playing with a lead. Tom Brady was just as intense up 38 points as he was when the game started. Coaches have been preaching this to their players for decades, but you don't often see it. Most teams check out mentally once they get a big lead....to some extent it's only natural. Up by 30+ points, Tom Brady spikes the ball in the endzone like he just dove in for the winning TD. He chews out his O-lineman for a stupid penalty. This is what coaches of basketball, baseball, and every other team sport have been always been striving for: a team that doesn't let up just because they have a big lead.
Bob Knight used to say you don't compete against the other team. You compete against the game of basketball. Similarly for Belichick in football. You compete to play perfect football. You never lose your aggressiveness on the field simply because conventional wisdom warrants it. When you get a big lead, you don't run the ball into the pile and stop trying to be successful on offense. You continue to impose your will on the other team by doing what your offense does best. For the Pittsburgh Steelers, that was traditionally slamming Jerome Bettis down their opponents throats throughout the 2nd half. For this year's Patriots, that means Tom Brady picking apart your defense like a scorched earth policy. Bill Belichick is ensuring victory by allowing his team to maintain aggressive football. He is playing to win. He's just doing it a new fashion. Let other coaches play not to lose.
As a football fan, what would you rather watch? An offense running their 4th string RB into the pile for the last 25 minutes of the game or an offense continuing to play football until the other team's will is broken? I'll take the offense that keeps playing. Passive and aimless football is a flat-out unwatchable abomination. Either way, Belichick's new philosophy is here to stay. And it will be copied down the road if another coach has the same opportunity. It's a successful strategy for winning games, and this is a copycat league.
2007 WORST PERSON IN FANTASY FOOTBALL AWARD
Pre-Season: Jack Del Rio
Week 1: Cam Cameron
Week 2: Cam Cameron / Norv Turner
Week 3: Rex Grossman / Lovie Smith
Week 4: Brad Childress
Week 5: Travis Henry
Week 6: Shaun Alexander / Adrian Peterson doubters
Week 7: Cleo Lemon + Randall Gay = Ronnie Brown
Week 8: Anyone associated with the slopfest in Wembley Stadium / Out-of-their-minds Patriots bashers
THRU WEEK 8 POWER RANKINGS
AFC
1. New England Patriots, 8-0 / +204
2. Indianapolis Colts, 7-0 / +122
3. Pittsburgh Steelers, 5-2 / +93
4. San Diego Chargers, 4-3 / +43
5. Tennessee Titans, 5-2 / +28
6. Jacksonville Jaguars, 5-2 / +21
7. Baltimore Ravens, 4-3 / +5
8. Cleveland Browns, 4-3 / -9
NFC
1. Dallas Cowboys, 6-1 / +69
2. Green Bay Packers, 5-1 / +35
3. New York Giants 6-2 / +41
4. Seattle Seahawks, 4-3 / +29 / 81.8%
5. Tampa Bay Buccaneers, 4-4 / +13
6. New Orleans Saints, 3-4 / -30
7. Detroit Lions, 5-2 / -22
8. Washington Redskins, 4-3 / -11
Tie: Carolina Panthers 4-3 / -11
Couple of notes from the weekend:
In my long-time dynasty league, the same owner who got stuck on the shipping sink known as the end of Marshall Faulk's career has also been stuck on the sinking ship known as Shaun Alexander Post-2005. Another owner, fighting desperately for a chance at the last playoff spot at 4-3, threw him a life raft yesterday morning, sending LaMont Jordan and a 1st round pick his way for Alexander. I'm not high at all on Jordan's value either, but I thought he did very well to get a 1st round pick out of Alexander....especially when you could flip a coin to figure out who will be more productive the rest of '07 between Alexander and Jordan. Even better when you consider that the guy trading for Alexander lost again yesterday and is now outside looking in at the playoff picture. That pick could end up as the #4 or #5 overall. It always chaps my ace a little bit when a lesser owner bails out a good owner who knows how to exploit an opening...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not a Patriots fan, though I am an admitted fan of watching good football as opposed to bad football. I read through all of the Belichick-Patriots-Running Up the Score threads on here last night. The blind hatred, jealousy, wishing -- nay demanding -- serious injury on Patriots players....congratulations, you're either a witless Jerry Springer Show reject or a future Darwin Award winner. Your utter incapacity to understand hypocrisy would be sublimely ironic if it wasn't so disheartening.
So the Patriots make the Hell's Angels look like manacled pansies? Big forking deal. It's professional football! I'm not going to get into the "play better defense if you don't want to get embarrassed" or "take out your starters if you want me to take out mine" arguments. Those points have been made....and have largely fallen on deaf ears. What hasn't been mentioned is that Bill Belichick is a iconoclastic football visionary. He thinks outside the box. I don't mean that in a kiss the ###hole's ### kind of way. I mean he's been iconoclastic his whole tenure in New England, and he truly is a football visionary in the strict sense of the description. To wit:
For decades upon decades hidebound conservative football coaches from high school to the pros have embraced the concept of running out the clock to preserve a win. You could argue that sportsmanship was at work here, but it's always been more about lessening risk and believing that it gave your team the best chance to come away with victory. It's the same idea that breeds calling for your RB to tip-toe into the pile for 2 or 3 plays before a game-winning successful field goal or a game-losing missed field goal. What if we fumble?! The goal isn't to successfully gain yardage. In fact, there is no goal to having your back tip-toe into a pile. That's the problem. It's an aimless philosphy. To quote Hunter S. Thompson and Tom Wolfe respectively: it's an "atavistic endeavor" or a "behavioral sink." It's also been called the "playing not to lose rather than playing to win" strategy.
The problem with this strategy is that it artificially extracts the aggressiveness inherent in the game of football and replaces it with passiveness and uncertainty. Don't get me wrong, some teams do it well and maintain their aggressiveness. I grew up watching the Bengals every week and saw Jerome Bettis and the Steelers time and again impose their will on the Bengals by running the ball down their throats for a full 2nd half. Nobody accused them of running up the score because it takes longer to run the ball all the way down the field than it does to pass the ball....and it's the accepted form of physical and mental domination handed down from generation to generation in football.
So where does that leave a team whose offense is truly dominant only when the threat of the pass exists and may struggle to impose their will on the defense solely via the rushing attack? I saw the Packers completely dominate the Bears in the 1st half a few Sunday nights ago only to run the ball into the line of scrimmage every time they got the ball in the 3rd quarter. And what came next? Once they stopped playing to win the game, once they lost their aggressiveness, the Bears found their own aggressiveness. The Packers lost the game because they were more concerned with running out the clock in the 3rd quarter than they were with actually running successful football plays.
What Bill Belichick has done is to push-button reject this traditional way of coaching football with a lead. You can call it running up the score. He's going to call it playing football the way it should be played. And you see it in the way his players continue to compete that they haven't mentally checked out of the game simply due to playing with a lead. Tom Brady was just as intense up 38 points as he was when the game started. Coaches have been preaching this to their players for decades, but you don't often see it. Most teams check out mentally once they get a big lead....to some extent it's only natural. Up by 30+ points, Tom Brady spikes the ball in the endzone like he just dove in for the winning TD. He chews out his O-lineman for a stupid penalty. This is what coaches of basketball, baseball, and every other team sport have been always been striving for: a team that doesn't let up just because they have a big lead.
Bob Knight used to say you don't compete against the other team. You compete against the game of basketball. Similarly for Belichick in football. You compete to play perfect football. You never lose your aggressiveness on the field simply because conventional wisdom warrants it. When you get a big lead, you don't run the ball into the pile and stop trying to be successful on offense. You continue to impose your will on the other team by doing what your offense does best. For the Pittsburgh Steelers, that was traditionally slamming Jerome Bettis down their opponents throats throughout the 2nd half. For this year's Patriots, that means Tom Brady picking apart your defense like a scorched earth policy. Bill Belichick is ensuring victory by allowing his team to maintain aggressive football. He is playing to win. He's just doing it a new fashion. Let other coaches play not to lose.
As a football fan, what would you rather watch? An offense running their 4th string RB into the pile for the last 25 minutes of the game or an offense continuing to play football until the other team's will is broken? I'll take the offense that keeps playing. Passive and aimless football is a flat-out unwatchable abomination. Either way, Belichick's new philosophy is here to stay. And it will be copied down the road if another coach has the same opportunity. It's a successful strategy for winning games, and this is a copycat league.
this is a fabulous post. thanks. I think all football fans regardless of their feelings about the Pats should appreciate this write-up.
Few WR rankings I don't really agree with.
I think S. Moss in tier 3 is entirely too high. There are just too many issues, most importantly inconsistency, to be ranked this high. I don't think either his talent nor his situation warrant a spot that high. The only thing going for him are his "stats" from a couple of years ago.
Likewise, both Cotchery and B. Marshall have shown more talent and consistency and should probably be in tier 3 already. I also think Roddy White needs to move up as it seems he's starting to make that jump, even with the obstacles of his current team and passing situation. Dynasties are about talent, and if his situation improves, he could be a real force. I would easily take him over a guy like Kevin Curtis who is in a higher tier that has less talent but is just currently in a more favorable situation.
I also have a problem with the TE stuff, moreso from a semantics point of view. I just don't see how a guy like Heath Miller (and others) can be included in a tier 1 along with Gates. There's a reason guys like Peyton and Brady and AP and LT are separated from others at their position. The #1 TE tier needs to be shrunk down considerably, even if it only holds Gates. I would argue that only Winslow, Witten, and Gonzo deserve to be there with Gates, if at all.
Still love the thread.
I think S. Moss in tier 3 is entirely too high. There are just too many issues, most importantly inconsistency, to be ranked this high. I don't think either his talent nor his situation warrant a spot that high. The only thing going for him are his "stats" from a couple of years ago.
Likewise, both Cotchery and B. Marshall have shown more talent and consistency and should probably be in tier 3 already. I also think Roddy White needs to move up as it seems he's starting to make that jump, even with the obstacles of his current team and passing situation. Dynasties are about talent, and if his situation improves, he could be a real force. I would easily take him over a guy like Kevin Curtis who is in a higher tier that has less talent but is just currently in a more favorable situation.
I also have a problem with the TE stuff, moreso from a semantics point of view. I just don't see how a guy like Heath Miller (and others) can be included in a tier 1 along with Gates. There's a reason guys like Peyton and Brady and AP and LT are separated from others at their position. The #1 TE tier needs to be shrunk down considerably, even if it only holds Gates. I would argue that only Winslow, Witten, and Gonzo deserve to be there with Gates, if at all.
Still love the thread.
QUOTE (EBF @ Oct 30 2007, 09:34 PM)
2.) Mewelde Moore is a guy to keep an eye on. I snagged him off waivers last week in a PPR dynasty and feel like I might have gotten a steal. He's a decent player and if you go back and look at his history he actually has a pretty good track record in games where he gets 15-20 carries. Is he a stud? No. Could he have a huge jump in value with the right change of scenery? Yes. He becomes a very interesting player if he lucks his way into a starting role or even a RBBC gig (he's a free agent this offseason). Stranger things have happened. I consider him roughly equivalent in value to most of the guys in the bottom of your fifth tier. I would rather have him than Brian Leonard and Jesse Chatman. I'm not convinced that he's any worse than guys like Betts and B. Jackson. A bad situation in Minnesota has obscured the fact that Mewelde is a pretty good football player.
Agreed. I've been carrying Moore and Kenny Watson for quite a while. Both gave us short glimpses of their ability early in their careers but have been stuck in bad situations. The Bengals didn't let Kenny go, but it appears the Vikings will let Mewelde go and I too think he has a great chance to land a significant role somewhere.
QUOTE (gianmarco @ Oct 30 2007, 11:00 PM)
I also have a problem with the TE stuff, moreso from a semantics point of view. I just don't see how a guy like Heath Miller (and others) can be included in a tier 1 along with Gates. There's a reason guys like Peyton and Brady and AP and LT are separated from others at their position. The #1 TE tier needs to be shrunk down considerably, even if it only holds Gates. I would argue that only Winslow, Witten, and Gonzo deserve to be there with Gates, if at all.
Agreed, Gates should be in a tier of his own. At no position is there such a clear cut #1. I dont think Gonzo should be in a tier with Witten and Winslow, due to his age.
P.S. How is this thread not pinned yet. It might very well be the single greatest thread in Shark pool history. Its a shame that some people might miss it, or have to wade through pages to find it with all the hidden ACF threads and other garbage posted here.
QUOTE (EBF @ Oct 30 2007, 09:34 PM)
A couple quick thoughts on the current rankings:
1.) I think LenDale White should be higher. I understand if people have doubts about his talent. So do I. But he's a top 20 RB in most of my leagues and he just now seems to be hitting his stride. Assuming that he stays healthy and continues to produce at his current level, he will finish as a top 15-20 RB and will likely be considered a consensus top 20 dynasty RB entering the 2008 season. You have him as the RB27 right now. I think he should be about 10 spots higher. Right underneath Marion Barber looks like the right slot for White right now. Two weeks ago I was down on his prospects, but his trade value should be very solid this offseason regardless of whether or not he's truly an elite RB.
2.) Mewelde Moore is a guy to keep an eye on. I snagged him off waivers last week in a PPR dynasty and feel like I might have gotten a steal. He's a decent player and if you go back and look at his history he actually has a pretty good track record in games where he gets 15-20 carries. Is he a stud? No. Could he have a huge jump in value with the right change of scenery? Yes. He becomes a very interesting player if he lucks his way into a starting role or even a RBBC gig (he's a free agent this offseason). Stranger things have happened. I consider him roughly equivalent in value to most of the guys in the bottom of your fifth tier. I would rather have him than Brian Leonard and Jesse Chatman. I'm not convinced that he's any worse than guys like Betts and B. Jackson. A bad situation in Minnesota has obscured the fact that Mewelde is a pretty good football player.
3.) It's starting to look like Greg Olsen is destined to become a very good receiving TE. You already have him pretty high, but I could definitely see him jumping up into the top 6-7 in the near future. I'd probably bump him ahead of Dallas Clark and Heath Miller since he seems more likely than those two to become a truly dynamic TE.
1.) I think LenDale White should be higher. I understand if people have doubts about his talent. So do I. But he's a top 20 RB in most of my leagues and he just now seems to be hitting his stride. Assuming that he stays healthy and continues to produce at his current level, he will finish as a top 15-20 RB and will likely be considered a consensus top 20 dynasty RB entering the 2008 season. You have him as the RB27 right now. I think he should be about 10 spots higher. Right underneath Marion Barber looks like the right slot for White right now. Two weeks ago I was down on his prospects, but his trade value should be very solid this offseason regardless of whether or not he's truly an elite RB.
2.) Mewelde Moore is a guy to keep an eye on. I snagged him off waivers last week in a PPR dynasty and feel like I might have gotten a steal. He's a decent player and if you go back and look at his history he actually has a pretty good track record in games where he gets 15-20 carries. Is he a stud? No. Could he have a huge jump in value with the right change of scenery? Yes. He becomes a very interesting player if he lucks his way into a starting role or even a RBBC gig (he's a free agent this offseason). Stranger things have happened. I consider him roughly equivalent in value to most of the guys in the bottom of your fifth tier. I would rather have him than Brian Leonard and Jesse Chatman. I'm not convinced that he's any worse than guys like Betts and B. Jackson. A bad situation in Minnesota has obscured the fact that Mewelde is a pretty good football player.
3.) It's starting to look like Greg Olsen is destined to become a very good receiving TE. You already have him pretty high, but I could definitely see him jumping up into the top 6-7 in the near future. I'd probably bump him ahead of Dallas Clark and Heath Miller since he seems more likely than those two to become a truly dynamic TE.
We've been on the same page regarding LenDale all along. We were higher on him than anybody else in the offseason. Apparently, we were both down on his prospects a couple weeks ago when he was rushing like the AFC's version of Cedric Benson. I think I need to see him play once or twice to get a good feel for his value. On the positive side, he can give a team a workhorse back to sustain a rushing attack. On the negative side, is he going to be too much of a plodder? Does he lack any semblance of explosiveness? Chris Henry has looked surprisingly impressive in limited action. Will that be an issue for LenDale going forward? I'm going to give LenDale's situation some thought, but I don't think I'll have a truly good read on it until I get to see him play a couple of times.
I've been high on Mewelde Moore since his days as a temporary starter a couple of years ago. He's another guy where his value depends on roster size. If you're in a large league, he's a perfect RB stash. If you're in a slightly smaller league and have RB issues, I'm sure Jesse Chatman is much more valuable to you.
RE: Olsen. True -- I haven't finished updating rankings from the weekend, but he was going to move up again...probably rearranging tiers and having him ahead of Heath Miller. It's tough to move Dallas Clark down in the middle of a career year, but I think I'd side with you on that one. Clark's production early this season has deviated so much from his career norms that you have to expect some regression the rest of the way.
QUOTE (Little Big Head @ Oct 30 2007, 10:27 PM)
I think Addai is clearly a tier 1 RB. I doubt there are many Gore owners out there right now that wouldnt jump all over a straight up trade for Addai. Dynasty or redraft
Redraft is a totally different story with these two players.
I don't own Gore or Addai. If I did own Gore in a dynasty league, I would not sell low just because he's had a disappointing first half. I would kick myself so hard if I traded him, and then he went back to playing like Frank Gore while the Colts worked Kenton Keith into the picture. I just can't bring myself to go crazy over Addai when he derives most of his value from his situation, and I still don't believe we've seen the end of Kenton Keith cutting into his production. From two weeks ago back on page 16, post #781:
QUOTE
You could make a good case for Addai to be higher, but I think it's pretty clear that Kenton Keith can do a pretty good Addai impersonation and may work his way into the mix more often...not to steal the job, but to provide rest for Addai in a Sammy Morris/Maroney or Portis/Betts kind of situation.
I've always believed that it's a negative sign for dynasty value when a player's back-up can perform just as well in the offense as the starter. Interchangeable parts usually = ambiguous long term value. I do believe Addai is more talented than Keith, just as I believe Maroney is more talented than Morris and Portis more talented than Betts. Still, if a back-up can step in and do your job with the offense not missing a beat, then how valuable are you? It's that question which leads NFL teams to get their back-ups regular playing time in order to keep their starters fresh for the long haul of a 16-game + playoffs season.
I've always believed that it's a negative sign for dynasty value when a player's back-up can perform just as well in the offense as the starter. Interchangeable parts usually = ambiguous long term value. I do believe Addai is more talented than Keith, just as I believe Maroney is more talented than Morris and Portis more talented than Betts. Still, if a back-up can step in and do your job with the offense not missing a beat, then how valuable are you? It's that question which leads NFL teams to get their back-ups regular playing time in order to keep their starters fresh for the long haul of a 16-game + playoffs season.
QUOTE (Jedimaster21 @ Oct 30 2007, 10:38 PM)
I know you have always been a huge fan of Ronnie Brown, and I agree that he has all the tools to be a difference maker in the NFL. His value definitely took a hit with the knee injury, but why do you have him falling from a top 6-7 player to the 3rd tier? It may take him some time to recover, but he has shown that he has the work ethic to come back, he is young, and he should be back to full form for a playoff run next year. Just wondering what your thought process is regarding this...
You can't use him for more than half of this season. That's a huge blow to his value. Throw in the ambiguity inherent in a recovery from an ACL injury that happened in late October, and it's questionable how much value he'll have next season. You know I
the guy's talent, but there's so much uncertainty involved. Let's say you're in the playoff hunt this year, and your RB corps was severely hurt by Brown's injury. Would you trade him for a guy like McGahee? It'd be hard not to. Confucius Lombardi say: "Championship banners fly forever." 
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